A Conversation With PFAC Executive Director Chris Nash
Update: Kabo has since become a proud member of PFAC after the recording of this interview.
A conversation with Chris Nash, Executive Director of the Pet Food Association of Canada (PFAC)
Vino/Kabo:
All right. let's kick it off. So maybe the best place to start Chris is, why don't you introduce yourself, tell us a little about yourself and what you do, what your title is and, and what PFAC actually stands for as well.
Chris/PFAC:
So Chris Nash, I'm an executive director at PFAC, which stands for the Pet Food Association of Canada, and I've been in the agri-food industry one way or another my whole career. Starting out when I was a teenager working in a restaurant, going to school for science and then food safety and then working in different food processing facilities, even doing a little stint in a food distribution place, doing sales, working in government, and then more recently with industry associations in a couple of different roles.
Vino/Kabo:
Awesome. And then, digging into it, did you know that you were going to go in and study food safety? I know, after doing some online creeping, and you started off in the biology space. Throughout your undergrad experience, what kind of drove you towards, studying food safety for your master's?
Chris/PFAC:
Well, when I was going to school, CSI was a big thing. It was a popular show at the time. I wanted to be a forensic scientist. I'm sure a lot of people did at that time. So I went to the University of Toronto at Mississauga. I couldn't get into the program for forensic science right away, so I just started taking all the same courses, hoping that I would eventually get in. And then I started having more and more interest in other types of biology and anthropology. After I did that, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. you know, getting a science degree and not having any kind of direction. There's a million things you can do, but you don't know what they are really. So I went to Centennial college for a few months. They have a, an industrial microbiology program there. I took that and then I did a, a co-op at a food plant. Then that really spurred my interest in, you know, food science and food safety. Then I went and got my master's degree at the University of Guelph in their food safety and quality assurance program.
Vino/Kabo:
Oh, that's awesome. Things have changed too much around, the undergraduate world of sciences where, there's a million options and, and sometimes, it feels like there's only a few as well. And I remember entering in thinking from high school to university, I was like, all right, I'm gonna be like doctor, lawyer, business person. I think these are the options in front of me and studied biomedical science, but, obviously ended up leaving and, and working at Facebook. But I think it was more of the experiences I was having outside of school that, that drove me to it. And it sounds like the placements during school were, were kind of key for that. I noticed as well. You worked in the world of QA and most importantly, making my childhood at like Kisco frees, I was addicted to those as a kid. Was that part of your coop placement? And the more important question is, is did you get access to, your favourite flavours and which ones were they?
Chris/PFAC:
Yeah, that was really my first job, other than my restaurant experience when I was 17, was at Kisco freezes. It was interesting, you know, growing up, having those freezies and then seeing how they're made. It didn't really, dissuade me from continuing to enjoy them. Every chance I get I tell my kids that, you know, I used to make these, I used to work there, making sure there was the right sugar content. We did have access to new flavours or you know, all the different types. That was part of the QA process was to taste testing it as well. I think overall my favourite flavour probably be, one of the crush freezes, like a lime crush. It's like a traditional flavour. I'd say the white or the blue.
Vino/Kabo:
Oh yeah, yeah. That, that's definitely a top favourite of mine, but the lime crush one, I don't know might be a bit more polarizing for people. And then obviously, you take your background in QA and it kind of leads into you working with these organizations that are really focused on maintaining quality and standards in industries. What was the big shift for you from going in a, in a very QA environment seeing, a lot of those, like programs, processes, policies that were in place, and then, you know, going ahead and like directing it at places like, whether it's the egg farmers association or, CFIA or the meat council. I'd love to hear what is the shift in terms of like the type of work you're doing and the thinking in those types of roles, including the one you have now?
Chris/PFAC:
Yeah, yeah. I'd say the biggest thing is if you're doing quality assurance in a food processing facility, it's more hands-on, you're doing physical checks. But at the same time, you're doing some program development or procedure development. And then the biggest shift from that type of environment to, you know, an office in an industry association, it would be more towards the policy side of things. You're still developing programs, but you're really focusing on policy to overall improve the safety and quality of the product. Luckily when I started egg farmers, they were one of the first on-farm food safety programs, if not the first. It was well established and inspected already. It was my role, there was really to modernize that, but also add on other programs.
I don't know if you've seen on some of your eggs that you get now, or even at like Tim Hortons or McDonald's they have that egg quality check symbol, much like the blue cow that that dairy has. I was basically starting the development of that when I was still there, trying to combine and create a lot of the programs that go behind that, like the animal care program. I had a, a large part in developing, and then some of the other work that was leading towards, like an environmental type program that I still don't think they have fully felt, but, that was probably the most interesting thing is really working on policy, to really help the industry do the right thing.
Vino/Kabo:
Awesome. And then how did you go from working on the human food side from the CFIA to the Canadian meat council to, you know, the pet food association of Canada, what made you make the jump? I imagine there was a great opportunity career wise and, there must have also been something that sold you on the greater goals that PFAC had that probably aligned with what you wanted to work on.
Chris/PFAC:
Yeah, I think part of it was moving from a farmers to the meat council, I had a small stint at government kind of in between, and that was really just like trying to get somewhere with upward mobility cause there wasn't really much. And then the next step from the meat council to PFAC really was partially luck and partially opportunity. So, I was meeting with the previous executive director for coffee one day in Ottawa, just really to discuss just general association stuff, and it wasn't really with the idea of getting a job or I didn't really even know there was a job available. But then after talking, she kind of, you know, said they were looking for somebody, and really it was for a regulatory role but you know, reading between the lines, you could see that they were looking for her replacement. So I think that's the real reasons, I had the opportunity to take on a leadership position, which was one of my long-term goals, with the association. And at that time when I first started at PFAC in 2019, I didn't know how long it would be before she retired. I was thinking like three to five years, but it ended up being like a year and a half. It just happened that I was able to take over a lot faster than I expected. And then at the same time that I did this pandemic happened. So I think she picked the perfect time to retire.
Vino/Kabo:
Exactly. That's it's a fast onboarding and learning curve, but I guess that's a great transition to understand like, you know, what was the environment coming in? I guess like while you joined in 2019 versus where it is now and like what you guys have gone through in COVID, I would love to hear where the focus has been with the organization, throughout these different phases?
Chris/PFAC:
Yeah, when I first started, the pet food industry, and a lot of previous executive director, Martha Wilder, she was there for 25 years and a lot of the things that are in place now, like the export certificate with the US, like the multi shipment certificate, a lot of the negotiated certificates around the world that are in place and, well developed. You know, you can give a lot of credit to her and working with the government. So, a lot of the trade aspects were cemented already. There's always going to be issues and I'm finding that as well. There are always new challenges to pop up. But really not a whole lot has changed in terms of operations. Things have gotten a little bit more ambitious, kind of branching out into new realms.
The challenge of the pandemic was more about adapting quickly than all that much of a challenge. Part of it was the lack of events, in-person events and then pivoting to virtual events. There was a worry that some members wouldn't fully realize the value if we didn't have in-person events, but that was just a worry and didn't seem to change membership that much. You know, there were other industry-specific challenges, like some supply chain issues, either shortages in shipping containers or delays and other like trucking challenges, but for the most part, the ingredient supply there were very few issues that I heard of anyway, there was a few early on, sourcing some of the ingredients from different places around the world that had some delays and slowdowns and people had to change where they were getting some of their ingredients from. But the industry adapted quickly to that and overall really, I think better than most industries, the pet food industry did pretty well during the pandemic.
Vino/Kabo:
Yeah, I can attest to all those, random supply chain challenges. Most of it, as you mentioned, is a lot of adapting around the limitations and restrictions of COVID. Thinking ahead a few years,or even if it's, you know, a three, five-year roadmap or even a sky in the pie long-term vision, like what are some of the things that you are seeing that, that you want to change that will have PFAC supporting more of the pet food trade-in Canada?
Chris/PFAC:
Right. So one of the longer-term objectives is to continue to build relationships within government. We work very closely with the CFIA, import-export groups, more specifically on the animal products and byproducts group that they oversee, and imports and exports of finished pet food and ingredients. They basically negotiate the export certificates to countries around the world. So we're, you know, we've always had a good relationship with them, so we want to make sure it's maintained and, and continue to be strong. But at the same time, we want to build relationships with other areas of the government, that could impact trade and export-import. Some of those are global affairs. They have various policy development groups that work on different regions and markets around the world. But they also have the trade commissioner service house at global affairs. And those people are the ones that are boots on the ground at various embassies around the world that have in-market intelligence or insight, that we can use to support members. So we're really trying to develop those relationships, but also getting more involved, at a higher level within government. So there's a few different ways we're trying to do that. One is by meeting with, and building relationships with various levels within both the bureaucracy, but also elected officials. And even though feedback is relatively small and not a whole lot of resources to work with, we can do some of that government relations work, but not at the same level as like one of the big associations. The main thing that we're gonna do there to start with is to really raise the profile, of PFAC within government, with the goal of getting the point where if there's a problem, or if there's something happening, they'll come to first before we have to go to them. That's the goal of that.
Another long-term goal, is continuing to be highly active at the global alliance of pet food associations. So this is our global association that is a PCAF is a member. It’s made up of other pet food associations from around the world. The main goal there is to harmonize pet food trade. So they work very closely with the world organization for animal health, which is formally the WHOA, and so what the work there really is aiming to do is to include statements in each of the disease chapters of the terrestrial code that basically says that tech food is a safe commodity. Due to its treatment and processing techniques. An example of this currently is the avian influenza chapter had that this type of statement added, and there's been quite a few AI outbreaks in Canada this year in February, and pet food trade is pretty much been uninterrupted, because people realize that it's a safe commodity that the processing, the treated pet food can move around the world without taking the disease with it, basically. So the aim is to get the other disease chapters to have that same type of statement where that type of processing can mitigate or eradicate the disease. So African swine fever might be one of those that, you know, is popping up in many places around the world and could potentially hit Canada. So the goal really is to, to make sure that pet food trade is not disrupted. We're slowly working towards that through GAPA, the global association.
Vino/Kabo:
That's awesome. And I've done some of that reading too, to see a little bit more about the history and, and how PFAC was actually, one of the founding members of that. And I think, you know, as we even see from whether it's those statistics Canada market insights, Canada is a great exporter of our pet food and it continues to grow. And I think you do provide a lot of those insights we access, where we can see the growing channels from Southeast Asia's demand around high quality pet food to, to obviously our neighbours down south. I guess, you know, obviously being in the pet food world and doing something like that ourselves and you've been in the space for a few years at this point, what do you see as some of those draws that are getting people interested in wanting to bring Canadian pet food brands, into their countries and around the world?
Chris/PFAC:
Well, I think part of it is, this is probably the same with human food as well- Canada has a really strong reputation for high-quality safe food, on the human food side. I think that also translates to pet food as well. I think part of the reason is just because our food safety program is one of the best in the world. Not exactly the same regulated, as the same as pet food, but the overall abundance of natural resources that Canada has, in terms of different, crops and grains and animals raised for human consumption and for pet food. I think generally we have that reputation around the world, so that's part of it. And I think the government as well has done a good job at developing the Canada brand around the world. But I think those are the two main reasons why, when people get the product, I think they love it, so they continue to buy it and they continue the opportunity in a lot of those markets around the world.
Vino/Kabo:
Yeah. I definitely think it's an open secret of ours, this agri-food sector, that this country's been able to build. And I think just being able to create some of the highest quality and safest pet food is what stands out about a lot of these brands that have been around for a long time and have tapped into the agriculture and natural resources that we have. And, I think it's kind of rare, especially in a country where, you know, I always joke about it being the second largest in the world and a smaller population than California. But we, you know, really stand out in this one area of pet food, which is phenomenal.For people at home and as well as the countries that are able, and for the brands are actually able to export it.
And I guess, like from that point, like the other side of it, I guess you're working a lot with the Canadian pet food, companies and the government factions to kind of help make the movement of information or policies come in place for that growth, probably for things like safety and quality as well. But as you know, from like the pet parent side, the internet I think has really given us an abundance of information and they come from all different types of sources and now more than ever, you see a lot more like polarized opinions, whether they're in Facebook groups or Twitter. I guess, for someone who's like a new pet parent and trying to navigate through this information, what are some tips around how people can better understand standards or even insights around their food or even care for their pet?
Chris/PFAC:
Yeah, and I've seen some of those things online about how different brands are not good, or you know, kibbles not good for your pet and all that kind of stuff. Really, it comes down to the fact that a lot of the companies in Canada that make pet food, they do it the right way because most of them and most of our members export, and most of them export to the US. So if they're exporting to the US, they have to meet a lot of different regulations. Pet food is heavily regulated in the US, so companies have to meet all those different types of regulations. First of all, if a company's exporting, you know, that it's gotta be of high quality and safe because they have to meet all the regulations in the US, but also all the regulations around the world.
But at the same time, a lot of those other companies that are at the stage of exporting or at such a level that they are doing quite well, then they do things the right way. They don't just like make pet food without thinking about it. They typically would, would have somebody either on staff or have some kind of expertise from a companion animal nutritionist or somebody that has the knowledge and expertise to properly do that because, you know, dogs and cats have very specific and detailed nutritional requirements. Unlike us, they typically eat the same thing every day, so whatever pet food they eat needs to be formulated correctly, to make sure that it's complete and balanced and provides all that daily nutrition that's required. So I think for people trying to navigate through that, they should trust companies that are maybe a bit bigger that have the resources, but also companies that are transparent about that type of thing on their websites. So if a company talks about how they make their pet food, if they employ a nutritionist or somebody else like some vets are specialized in nutrition as well. But also at the minimum, and this is one of PFAC’s requirements for becoming a member is that members have to at a minimum follow the AFCO nutritional guidelines. There's been quite a bit of flack that AFCO has received, the science is there behind those requirements, and it's been decades into making. So people should be able to trust that any company that's following those requirements at a minimumare making pet food that's going be the right nutrition for their animals.
Vino/Kabo:
Awesome. I know you kind of touched on this concept of obviously making pet food is not easy and it's complex, and I think one things we are working towards is obviously the key milestone that would allow us to become PFAC members too, and take advantage and start to learn a little bit more about, how we scale these things around pet food safety regulations, and most importantly, even the expert component. You know, when someone's starting a pet food business and they’re thinking about joining PFAC, what are some of the requirements that you guys look for in members? What are maybe the two or three things that members coming in, especially on the newer side are really getting out of by being a part of this group?
Chris/PFAC:
Well, I think I'll start with the three criteria that we have for eligibility. So one of them is you have to have been in business for a year, at least, and by that, I mean, you know, selling your product. Two, you have to follow a recognized food safety programs that could be asset-based program or some kind of a GFSI scheme, many pet food companies follow, SQF, or FSS C 20, 2000 other like food safety certification programs. Then third, if to follow, the AFCO nutritional guidelines, that's for pet food. It doesn't apply the same for treats, because it's just like a complimentary temporary feeding thing. So you need the full, complete and balanced nutrition out of a treat, but general principles still apply.
So I think for people that are, and this is, this is probably one of the most common questions that you get, through our website is I wanna make pet food. What do I do? The advice that I give is really to make sure that you know, what it takes. That's in terms of food safety of the ingredients and the product, but also, especially in terms of nutrition. Like I mentioned already, dogs and cats have specific nutritional requirements that they need to be met. They need to be met fully because that's the only thing they eat day to day. So I highly recommend if somebody is going to make their own pet food, that they get some advice from an expert, animal nutritionist. But apart from that, one of the common questions I get is what kind of license or certification do I need. Most people are surprised that pet food isn't formally regulated in Canada. So you really don't need any kind of license or certification to start making pet food, but you do need to follow some regulations around consumer protection and labelling, minor things, but they still have to follow his rule.
Vino/Kabo:
Awesome. And then in terms of the last point around what are some of the things that PFAC members can kind of look towards, what are some of those insights or resources that you guys provide that might be outside of the guidance. I know you guys organize events. Maybe speak a bit to some of those value add things that may not be as upfront and center with people that are actually joining as members, probably looking for a specific function or advice. But most importantly, what are the other things that you guys are providing to them?
Chris/PFAC:
Right. So I would say that PFAC membership is probably of the most value to a company that is just about ready to start exporting. We don't do a whole lot of work on domestic things other than maybe some regulations around environmental things that are coming like plastics and other things like that. So one of the things we do for all members, regardless of whether they export or not is advocate with government, because some members that don't export, let's say import ingredients from the US or from other places, and we support them on that. PFAC also has some members that don't produce pet food in Canada. They make pet food in the US and then import to Canada. So we do a lot of support on import or export questions and advocate with government.
One of the benefits obviously is extra capacity. Let's say if the company is smaller, they don't have the resources currently to hire their own regulatory professional or something, then we can help them, answer some of those questions and we have good contacts within government to do so. Another thing we do for companies that are ready to export or well established, is provide market intelligence and other information about different markets around the world. We do that through, webinars that we coordinate with the trade commissioner service. An example is right now, we're working on one that, we will have agriculture and food Canada. They have a unit within that department that creates reports on different markets. So we're working that that way, but also working with the trade commissioner in Australia to develop a webinar, with the information from that report, kind of give an overview of that market for members. And then they can really have an overview of the market with, you know, demographics, some market intelligence, maybe cultural things that might be important to know some regulatory, just to give a good picture of that market to the member and then they can decide if they wanna pursue it further or not. So we've done that with quite a few different markets around the world and people continue to do that. The other thing that isn't immediately tangible is our work with, that hopefully will lead to improved trade around the world, but also addressing some trade barriers or non-tariff trade barriers, more specifically, working with government to understand some of those things, but also how do we advance some of them? So market A could have a regulation around something that isn't part of a free trade agreement but just more like a commercial requirement, that might be difficult for companies to meet, so how can we work with our government? And they can advocate with the foreign government to figure that out. So those things take time, but eventually should benefit members if we can advance some of those.
Vino/Kabo:
Yeah, definitely. I think is actually great. I think being in a country like this, where we actually have that type of, association group, advocating for us, because even as we're turning the corner and getting into that space and preparing for the export side, as you said, there's a lot of diligence required there to meet those standards. I always think about where does this go in the future? You know, how do we have more of this like globalization piece? And, I think just having someone being able to advocate and like make it as easy as possible for trade between countries. And as you said, like to, for people to utilize that, that love for that Canadian food and brand. I know we're a bit over time, but one question that we always love to ask people is dogs or cats. No, I'm kidding. I wouldn't put anyone like that under, under the fire scrutiny, but, I do wanna know if you were to be a dog breed, or a certain type of dog, what kind of dog would you be and then why?
Chris/PFAC:
Well, I think I've only had a couple of dogs in my life and they've both been pretty small. But they've both been happy, you know, lazing around all day. They don't need a whole lot of exercise, so I think I'd want to join them and be a smaller dog, their unique perspective of being only a foot off the ground. We have a cockapoo when she's like the runt of the litter, so she's only really like six pounds. And really tiny. it kind of looks like a, a little Ewok almost so I think I, I try that out.
Vino/Kabo:
Yeah, I would definitely, I would definitely love to be an Ewok now looking dog for sure. And I think that perspective of them just being small and looking at the world is great. I have like a medium-sized mixed mutt and I think he thinks he's small based on like his ability to try and get on furniture or get into the places that he thinks are suitable for his smaller size, but he's actually like, 70 pounds and, close to my waist. So, and the great thing is, he keeps me active, but I don't know if I would wanna be on that side. I think I'd, definitely love the experience of just being a smaller dog and having the home as like an entire country, scaled for me.
Chris/PFAC:
Yeah.
Vino/Kabo:
Awesome. Well, thanks, Chris. I really appreciate you taking the time.